Friday, June 15, 2012

Grandparents' Rights

A real problem for ACONs.  I'm not in favor of any legalized rights for grandparents because of my own experience and that of people I know.  Plus it makes things even more complicated in a divorce, when the children are being pulled in different directions already. There are also parents who must protect their children from the grandparents, and the "rights" movement doesn't address this.  Nothing about the grandparents who were awful parents and think they are entitled to be in their grandchildren's lives, ordering around their children, and not accepting that their children are parents themselves.  It's all about how grandmommy and granddaddy miss the precious child, and how they did absolutely nothing to deserve this poor treatment.

It's all about them.  Their feelings.  Their "pain."

Sound familiar?

I've read sob stories on message boards and in comments, and I see the same old shit. 

"I don't know what I ever did.  I love my grandchild so much, but my daughter won't let me see him.  This is the most painful thing I've ever dealt with in my life.  If only there were a law that gave me the right to see my grandson.  Why is my daughter doing this to me?"

What I've yet to see is children who are harmed by not having grandparents.  Children who have irreparable damage because they don't see or talk to grandparents.  One could make the argument that there are children who are damaged because the grandparents aren't around to help out, but honestly these kids are suffering because of having shitty parents.  If the situation is so bad, then grandparents only have to involve child services and try to get guardianship or custody. 

My girls have no real grandparents.  On my side, there's NAM and that family that we haven't talked to in 6 years.  On their dad's side, there's his parents who have no real involvement with them.  They don't call or send cards for birthdays.  They don't send gifts.  They don't try to keep in touch.  The do, on the other hand, wait for the girls to go see them, and then browbeat the girls for not coming to see them more.  We live 600 miles away, and the girls see their dad maybe once a year.  They really aren't a priority to either their dad or their grandparents.  You can tell what people think is important by where they spend their time, money, and effort. 

Several years ago, after we had moved here (and away from relatives and such) the grandparents claimed they were sending a birthday card to my youngest.  When it never arrived, she asked her dad about it, who then asked the grandparents.  They claimed they got the address wrong.  They claimed they would send it again.   That child went to the mailbox every day for a month looking for her card from them.  She was 6 years old, and it broke my cold, dead heart.  When I asked their dad about it, he claimed that they would give her the card when she and her sisters went to visit them for Christmas (3 months later). 

She never got that card.

No apologies.  Just ridicule for wanting the card she was promised.

It's all about them.  What a surprise.


Tundra Woman said...

I'm right with you on this: If these "parents" are too crazy/toxic/whatever for us to deal with, what chance does a child have? I assure you no more than we had. I also know ACs who have had their children abducted by the grandparents. If you think the parents were young, dumb, uneducated, you'd be entirely WRONG. These were well educated, affluent people living in an upscale community. If you think the grandkids were infants/toddlers, you'd be WRONG again: They were about 9 and 11. It was presented to the kids as an "adventure." It took months for the parents to even learn the where-abouts of their children-even the police and private investigators could not find them.
I can not imagine a more traumatic event for a parent than to have their children abducted by THEIR "parents." And the trauma to the children.....Mon Dieu...
Do not EVER allow these grandparents to take your children off your property or out of your direct supervision if you're doing the whole MC/Limited Contact approach. I KNOW child care is expensive-but it's going to cost you far, far more than $$$ to allow them unsupervised access to your kids. If you think, "Naw, my parents would NEVER do that!" Don't kid yourself-YES, they WILL given the opportunity. This happens far more frequently than you realize. Cases such as this are generally kept out of the media.
IMO, your best option is hardcore NO CONTACT. Period, the end. You were nothing more than a tool to these "parents" and they WILL do your children just as they treated you, sooner or later.

vicariousrising said...

I always get a "kick" out of these grandparents who moan about their cruel children and heap wishes for bad karma to whack their kids back. But these grandparents not once wonder if maybe the reason they are being "punished" is because of their bad karma for all the shit they did as parents.

Goddamn hypocrites.

Family Attorneys said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Family Attorneys said...

If you have been involve in these such problems then you should fight for your rights. You should hire a experienced lawyer.He will help you to get your legal rights.
Grandparents Rights in Illinois

Anonymous said...

Absolutely- well put! My situation is that I am married into a family where the narcissistic MIL matriarch thinks she can run the show and run our lives. My husband hasn't fully realized it yet because it's "his reality" of a loving mother for the past 42 years and though we are a year deep in councelling. The only thing holding us together is my fear of seeing the damage my MIL has done on my husband, put on my two boys in the same way. How does everyone just assume "poor grandparents" when mean, spiteful, narcissistic, and self absorbed people grow to be old too! The scary thing is that an emotionally damaging person is so hard to proove- especially if they are good at it.

Anonymous said...

Oh i understand this all too well. My mother caused me years of pain. When i started having my own kids she called cps every chance she got. Meaning when i didn't want to deal with her and fantasy life cps was knocking at my door. Only one worker to this day has had my back , but left her office. She has given me a wealth of information in dealing with my mom or any Nars. for that matter. These individuals can be extremely dangerous, thank God I found someone that was willing to help.

Anonymous said...

Has anyone encountered an NPD grandparent getting awarded visits? Has anyone been successful in proving emotional manipulation? My stepson's maternal grandmother got a bunch of time - almost more than his mom but we know GM has NPD. Long story short mom was diagnosed BPD and father is custodial parent. Mom moved to a different state so she kept son from GM when she had him EOW. GM went to court to get rights....time was during father's time because they lived 1 town over. Judge didn't care that both parents said GM was toxic....judge is grandmother too.

Anonymous said...

Similarly my EF or more likely NF told me to contact my sister, who lives the luxury life, travels, childless & in the scheme of things is & had been the budding narc adult child for decades. It was so lovely to hear the comment "she really misses the kids". I don't matter & What's more I'm the thorn in everybody's side (scapegoat since birth) & the "kicked dog" for siblings & parents since childhood.
Now you've raised something I've not thought of. Should anything happen to me & husband, who gets the kids? That is one scary proposition. Maybe the in-laws are looking more favourable every minute. ..

Anna Valerious said...

Draw up a will and name a guardian for your children. And a back-up, but make sure you've checked it with the person(s) you've named. Grandparents have no automatic legal rights to children.

Anonymous said...

My son's father was absent, out of state and had drug issues. His mother fits the profile of a sociopath. We were tormented and manipulated by the court system for years. I actually have one custody agreement with his father and another with her. Judge didn't want the case in court and basically said whoever doesn't agree won't like the consequences. We ended up agreeing to one day per month. She uses her son to get his weekends. She recently picked him up for a long weekend on the pretense my son's dad would be there... He wasn't. My son is 15 and hates them both. 3 more years then we're done. Here's the kicker she staged am abduction of my son from his summer camp just to get me to say she couldn't see him... I actually said I would get back to her on that after my wedding in 2 weeks. That was all she needed to make a case. Served us papers the day before. Again at work on my first day of a new job. Grandparent rights are unlawful. Not to mention they have more money which fares better witch court expenses.

Anonymous said...

I meant...Should be unlawful and with. Always a typo :-)

Anonymous said...

How were you able to prove her NPD?

Anna Valerious said...

She's never been diagnosed. Most people with NPD are not. Is there any way to request a psychiatric evaluation of your son's grandmother?

anastasiadenton said...

I think a few of the other commentators have basically described my entire childhood as well as 1/2 my adult life.

Social workers have always done it on a case-by-case basis & can choose to or not to place a child with grandparents. If I don't want it, they'll take that into consideration.

& I don't want it. Not after my childhood with any of them & certainly not with what I'm going through as an adult. No, just no.

Anonymous said...

My maternal grandmother is a certainly a narcissist! When my aunt died, she was living with a man who stole everything she owned- grammy still maintains a relationship with that creep who took advantage of her daughter!
I make a living cleaning houses. Grammy said she'd pay me to clean hers- I agreed and wrote a contract. Soon she said she wanted me to remove all ceiling fan blades in her home, wash and replace them every week- would have taken all day- she wanted it for free. When I refused to be her cleaning slave she screamed so loud I just left the house and ripped the contract up. Later that day I was walking downtown- she rolled up to me at a stoplight and flipped me off!
My mom died of breast cancer, choosing to do so in her own home. One day i got a call from grammy. She was at a family reunion 1 block away asking me to come see her- I did, and asked that she come home to visit her daughter dying of cancer. She just shook her head no! Later, in her Christmas letter she said she drove to see mom once a week. LIAR! Mom died, grammy wanted all of her jewelry. It's my inheritance. I said no, and grammy hissed at me! As narcissistic grammy entered a nursing home, the family learned she gave full control over her estate to some neighbor. Nothing was willed to any family! Her neighbor didn't care about family photos, so they were lost. Grammy plays the blame game, accusing me of stealing them down to this day. She writes nagging, slanderous letters to me weekly.

I've given her many chances, her actions prove she cares for nothing but herself. She sits alone in a nursing home due to her actions over the course of 20 sad years. My heart died for her the day she opted not to visit her daughter rotting away from breast cancer. I've heard and read enough of her lies & nagging. I happily moved 1K miles away. Letters from her are refused. Run from a person causing contention, belittling and blaming! You don't deserve the stress and crap- and that is all they will give!

Anonymous said...

You say "If the situation is so bad, then grandparents only have to involve child services and try to get guardianship or custody." DONT GIVE THEM ANY IDEAS! Narcissist grandparents use this tactic ALL the time, just watch Dr. Phil.

This has become a favorite tactic because often the narcissist grandparent has more money because of their age and how they cheat others, and whomever has more money and the better lawyer, often wins in court, regardless of the facts. All the narcissist has to do is trump up a bunch of lies then family court looks at their brief and parents brief, chooses one and that magically becomes "the findings of facts and conclusions of law!"

Often the parents don't have a lawyer to draft a brief because the narcissist has impoverished them their entire lives! In that case, they just sit there and say "I've done nothing wrong," and lose their kids.

You put too much trust child services and the courts. I have A LOT experience there, and let me tell you, people often lose their kids, based solely on "they couldn't afford to hire the lawyer who plays golf with the judge." Narcissists exploit the system constantly, and to bystanders, it looks like this was official, and those were bad parents! And narcissists love this!

When it's the grandparent, they can dig up everything their kid ever did bad in their life(and with a parent as shitty as this grandparent was, the kid is bound to have reacted badly to their torture), use it to discredit them, get custody though a guardianship, and now their adult child is forced to finance having their child kidnapped, and the narcissist grandparent is paid to steal the children and keep them, plus they can deny the parent the ability to see their own kids and if the parent doesn't like it the narcissist grandparent will just call the court and police, make more false accusations, file more false charges and their adult child can either lose all ability to see their child, be put in prison, or both. It's happens every day and narcissists love it. Don't give them any ideas or that system any trust. Also if you have a narcissistic grandparent in you life GO NO CONTACT immediately. Whether you know it or not, they can make incredible trouble though the court system, just by telling wild lies, if you have any contact with them at all, and sometimes even when you don't, though with no contact it's much harder for them to do. This isn't cruel, it is what you have to do to protect your kids, You must protect yourself and your children from the monsters that hurt you, and since the court system, has forgone justice for money, and gives them such an easy way to do that these days, no contact is the only way.